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Christine
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« on: February 17, 2011, 09:17:35 PM »

Hi all,  Smiley

I wonder what your philosophy/attitude/believe/thoughts/habit/practice is in terms of hoof care.

Do you put shoes on, go barefoot, use horse-boots?
What kind of trimming style do you use?
Do you trim yourself?
What is your experience?

I'm sure there are questions missing but you get my drift - I want to know everything you are willing to share!  Wink

Thank you!

Best wishes
Christine
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Christine

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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2011, 07:50:02 PM »

No Shoes, trim myself and wish I could learn more without spending thousands on a course in the UK.


I trim according to Pete Ramey and Jamie Jackson but am open to other ideas if I come across them.  I am finding that our two horse's feet are slowly taking on a nice shape and I am taking the cautious route of doing less rather than more.  I don't want to trim too much or cut something off that i am not sure about.  As I said they are improving that's the proof that it is working. 

I have lots of questions though and I know they could be better than they are now.  But they are WAY better than lots of horse's hooves that I see all over the place so that is some comfort.

There is lots more I could say, but where do I start?
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 12:52:04 PM »

There is a small but enthusiastic band of "home" trimmers in the north - we did a couple of short, horseowner's courses about 8 years ago, and most of us have attended various different trimmers as they have visited NI.
I learned enough to rehabilitate a very badly shod OTTB, although it took 2 years, and have brought a couple of navicular cases back into work.
Happily my daughter decided to follow that route as I didn't feel I had enough stamina to carry on, she has been training with first KC la Pierre and latterly EPAUK, so if I can manage to "book" her, she trims all our horses.
As I have a lot of interest in the subject I have studied along with her, and have attended some of the training in UK, so although I am not a trimmer, I might be able to help with any questions - and if I can't, I'll get her on here!
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2011, 01:59:59 PM »

Woohoo, that all sounds great! I was thinking about your daughter today actually, wondering would she come down this way and do a demo or something, so people could get an idea of how she trims and if they would like to book her, if she has time!

Also, we are hoping to set up a trimmers "club" or group, don't know what to call it yet.  The idea would be to share ideas, info, resources, advice, contacts etc etc.  If you have any thoughts on that let me know.  I think it is vital at this stage....I know I'd benefit chatting to others about it all.

Oh, and I do have questions, so I might think of the most important one and add in on in a bit
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2011, 02:42:42 PM »

I did a course on Clare Island during the summer given by Dermot and John McCourt.  Following that, they came to trim my two and a friend's horses and showed us again what to do.  We now trim our horses together about every 3 weeks and are hoping to get Dermot and John down again when we can afford it.

I have just ordered cavallo hoof boots.  My cob needs hoof boots on the rougher roads and forestry trails.  I did order renegade boots for his front feet which were excellent, but unfortunately (or fortunately) his hooves have spread as part of his transitioning process and his hooves are too big for the renegade boots now.

I hope that in the end he will not need hoof boots on the road.  It is a bit of a journey into the unknown, involving much disapproval and the telling of horror stories but I would never go back to shoes now.

Máire
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Christine
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2011, 03:07:45 PM »

Hi intouch,
WOW I am impressed!!!  Shocked   Cheesy
Luckily we only have to do maintenance trims but still it is quite difficult to learn from a book... some youtube clips helped with the practicalities. We had a good & patient trimmer so far but read a Pete Ramey book and felt we should give this style a try.

Hi Maria,
I am definitely all for a trimming club!!!   Cheesy Yes, a demonstration would be wonderful!! 

Hi Máire,
good for you and your horses!!!   Cheesy  I know what you mean... unfortunately I heard even an animal welfare person stated not too long ago that horse xy was in a neglected state among other things because it was not shoed!!! A lot of ignorance still out there...   Undecided 
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intouch
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 09:22:04 PM »

I'm sure we could arrange something, I'll get after her.
I think Christophe from Clare Island has some sort of trimming resource in the offing, I heard Jenny mention him.
An interest group would be a great idea!
Maire - I wouldn't worry about using hoof boots - the fact that your horse is bare in his leisure time is more than enough, you don't need to go hardcore!
My friend's TB had his shoes off about 6 months ago and has been sound in the arena, he hacked out today for the first time without boots (cause we couldn't find them!) and was 100%, delighted!  His feet are enormous, you'd never believe he was TB.
Yes, there's a lot of ignorance out there, but the groundswell is encroaching tradition, and the pioneers will fade into the dust!
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2011, 07:05:49 PM »

To Christine - I saw the same thing on a documentary from the DSPCA - one of the wardens commented on the neglect of particular horses in an open area, citing not having shoes as neglect!  mad stuff. 

To Intouch - please keep me informed about anything going on in Clare Island.  What kind of resource will it be do you think?  Can't wait to hear more.
there is more and more interest here in barefoot, thankfully.

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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 01:59:18 PM »

Can I play devils advocate and say this area of horse care should be left to the professionals. A little knowledge can cause seriouss problems. Find a good qualified farrier and look after them, they've trained for years.  How can a short course equip you to trim. Its not a manicur! If your horse isnt working on the roads leave the shoes off and reshape every 8 weeks or so. But road work requires shoes.
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 06:42:33 PM »

Hi Montana, thanks for playing devil's advocate - This helps to make sure we know why we are doing this - as in we have to think clearly about our reasons for going barefoot etc.  If one can't think of good clear reasons then one had better think again about what you're is doing.....mmm, am I making sense?

Anyway, let me try this on you.  I have just come back from a mini jog and I made sure to wear my runners.  They aren't very good ones but they will do as I don't run very much.  I am also running on tarmac so those two things combined mean that I will not cause excessive shock to my bones.  For the length of time I am running I don't think it is too crucial however, but any athlete will know how important shock absorbtion is. 

Now, if I was that African guy who ran and won the marathon barefoot, well I'd be fine not wearing shoes cos I would have so many callouses etc that I wouldn't get sore running over gravel or whatever.  If I tried running barefoot now I would get about four feet and give up. 

A farrier has been trained to put shoes on - fair enough, and yes they have trained for 3 to 4 years on this.  But they are not trained to trim for barefoot.  This would be the human equivalent of going to get a pedicure - removing all callouses and tough skin and then being asked to go run along the road.  If I was to actually want to go around barefoot I would have to allow those callouses to build up, and in time I too could run the marathon barefoot - if I was incredibly fit too Wink  The farrier however is not trained to know how to let calloused material build up and that is where the problem is...from the barefoot stand point he/she is not the appropriate professional for the job. 

For humans there is no rigid iron shoe  option  - just as well as I would shudder to think what it would feel like to run, clanging along jarring with each step.  Now, our toes bend so this is obviously not a practical option anyway.  Our feet are not like hooves. BUT, horses hooves do flex, just in a different bit, at their heels.  They go in and out, or should do.  This absorbs shock and pumps blood around the body as well as a host of other things.  So this is why we believe barefoot is the best option for horses (without being dogmatic about it hopefully). 

It is my understanding that barefoot professionals know a hell of a lot more about the anatomy of the hoof than a farrier does - and I suppose I understand why.  In order to know how to build a tough hoof you need to know alot more about it.  If you use a metal object to prevent wear then you don't need to know as much because in a way you are bypassing the hoof's true function. 

As with any emerging field there will be a lot of scrutiny put upon barefoot trimming - and I think this is great.  It means that people have to really be sure of what they are doing, because any slip up will be taken as an example of why the whole area is flawed.  So my opinion is that in about 10 years the level of expertise in the barefoot area will be astounding. 

The reason for the trimming group is to support this process and to help maintain a very high standard of trimming and by cooperating with the world wide community we will do the best we can for our horses.  There's still lots to learn however.

Ok, how did I do? Please pick as many holes in this as you can possibly think of and I will see if I can give you a genuine and sensible reply. 

best regards Smiley

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Christine
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2011, 10:18:51 AM »

WOW I am impressed - well said and explained!!  Smiley

I would like to add the idea of hoof boots for the transition time or indeed for the very few horses who will never be able to walk comfortably barefoot on rough/rocky terrain.
They should be tailor fitted and checked regularly because in transition time the hoof gets wider.



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Christine

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intouch
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 02:47:02 PM »

Good stuff Maria!  While there are certainly excellent farriers out there, many more train and then do their own thing - only the very dedicated continue to explore and learn.  Whereas trimmers have to be up to date with research, it is such an evolving field of knowledge and facinating, as every hoof anorak knows!

As stewards of the horse we are expected to care for their health, and feet are such a big part of their health that it is not realistic to give up all responsibility in this area.  It behoves all owners to learn as much as they can, so at least they have some idea of the competence of the professional - trimmer of farrier!
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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2011, 02:27:23 PM »

Intouch - that is a good point about simply educating oneself so that we can tell a good trimmer from another.  We don't necessarily have to do the trimming in order to want to learn something about it.

Christine - I don't know much about boots as our girls don't ride.  Do many people use them in ireland?  Are they sucessful in helping with transition?
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Christine
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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2011, 03:03:09 PM »

Maria,

since we don't ride either I don't have need or experience of hoof boots either...  Wink
I'm not even sure if they are available in dinner-plate-size  Grin

But Pete Ramey (USA) says he gives them to every customer when he is taking off shoes now. If they don't need them then he is happy to buy them back in 3 month time. But he says this new approach is helping the horses, the owners and the reputation of barefoot trimming.
I know in the stable where my sister has her horse someone tried barefoot, couldn't ride the horse, put shoes back on and no one around there dares to try it again.  Sad

An important factor as I understand it is where your horse lives, since the hoof will develop accordingly. So a horse who lives on soft ground or a thick bedding will most likely always be tender footed on hard/rough surfaces since it won't have the opportunity to develop a hard calloused sole. I think those are the cases when the riding-boots can't be phased out.

But as I said, my "wisdom" is coming from books and DVDs ....  so if anyone knows better please correct me!!   
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Christine

We are not the only creatures in the world whose feelings matter! - Jane Goodall -
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